Moviedrome #4: Oscar travesties
Rosebud vs. The Mob
Loading ...Everyone wants to win an Oscar. But remember, winning an Oscar does not mean your film is any good (Titanic) or that it will help your career (Halle Berry). So, for Moviedrome #4, here are two seminal films that were snubbed for the Oscar, despite being much better than the films that won (in parentheses):
Goodfellas (Dances with Wolves) vs. Citizen Kane (How Green Was My Valley)
So, which snub represents the greater travesty? Orson Welles or Martin Scorcese?
Other snubbed films:
Apocalypse Now (Kramer vs. Kramer), Shawshank Redemption (Forrest Gump), Pulp Fiction (Forrest Gump), Fargo (English Patient), Taxi Driver (Rocky), LA Confidential (Titanic). Any more?
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Moviedrome Winners so far:
Spirited Away
Blade Runner
Hero
While I’m a big mafia movie fan, I’m not a huge “Goodfellas” fan for some reason. I think “Shawshank” is the most glaring that you listed, and even though LA Confidential was far superior to Titanic, let’s face it, there’s no wat Titanic wasn’t winning.
How about “Shakespeare in Love” over “Saving Private Ryan?”
Denzel Washington and Halle Berry winning the same night over Russel Crowe, Sean Penn, Nicole Kidman, Sissy Spacek, doesn’t seem to make sense.
The worst offender every year is the “Best Supporting Actress” winner. Marisa Tomei? Mira Sorvino!?! Ugh.
Comment by Tim J. — February 28, 2006 @ 11:46 pm
I still think Dances with Wolves is a great film and a classic even if Kevin Costner is a bit of a weenie. Certainly Scorcese (not to mention Hitchcock) deserved an Oscar. But while I prefer Goodfellas to Dances with Woves, the later clearly had the popular taste. And that’s important for Oscars.
The bigger ones I’d agree with were Apocalypse Now. Kramer vs. Kramer, while a good film from an up and coming director was vastly inferior. The year Forest Gump won I think there were a ton of great films. And most were approachable. (I still think Forest Gump to be amazingly underrated)
Now the great travesty was Titanic. I love James Cameron’s work. But that was a horrid movie. And LA Confidential was great.
Taxi Driver vs. Rocky. That’s actually a hard one. I think Taxi Driver the better movie, but once again there is that approachability factor. And let’s be honest. Rocky is a great film.
Shakespeare in Love though definitely was a travesty. I also agree with Denzel Washington and Halle Berry.
Comment by clark — March 1, 2006 @ 12:23 am
Clark, I agree with you all the way, except that Forrest Gump is NOT amazingly underrated (um, it won Best Picture).
Comment by Supergenius — March 1, 2006 @ 12:48 am
Shakespeare in Love was cleverly written and well directed. While I didn’t buy the love story, and thought Gwyneth’s performance was overrated, I don’t think it was a total travesty. Saving Private Ryan was a good movie, but more than a bit manipulative in my opinion. I don’t think it was as good as it pretended to be.
I’ll defnitely go for LA Confidential over Titanic, though.
Comment by Allison — March 1, 2006 @ 8:09 am
Raiders of the Lost Ark (Chariots of Fire). No, I’m serious.
The Sixth Sense (American Beauty)
For voting purposes, Citizen Kane was the bigger snub.
Comment by Matt Barr — March 1, 2006 @ 8:55 am
Among the controversial opinions that I stubbornly cling to is this one: Miller’s Crossing is a better mobster movie than Goodfellas or any of the Godfather movies.
But then, I actively dislike Apocalypse Now, so what do I know?
Comment by BTD Greg — March 1, 2006 @ 9:16 am
The Oscars seem pretty pointless to me.
My husband told me the other day there should be an award show for the best award shows. How many pats on the back can the entertainment industry give itself? It’s beyond ridiculous.
But I will be watching this year, thanks to Jon Stewart.
Comment by Susan M — March 1, 2006 @ 9:54 am
“How Green Was My Valley” is a pretty good film. My impression, and I could be wrong, is that “Citizen Kane” has gained much of its clout from its place in history and the way it ‘revolutionized’ filmmaking. So I don’t see it as being that big of a snub–not like “Goodfellas.” What’s worse, one of these days Scorcese is going to get a consolation statue for an undeserving film.
The fact that Forrest Gump won at all is a travesty. Worst film ever to win best picture. (And possibly worst film ever nominated, but I won’t go that far.)
Comment by Pris — March 1, 2006 @ 10:01 am
No, the worst film ever nominated would be Chocolat.
Comment by BTD Greg — March 1, 2006 @ 11:21 am
Or maybe Ghost.
Comment by BTD Greg — March 1, 2006 @ 11:28 am
I like Goodfellas. It’s a very fine piece of filmmaking. I love the sequence is near the end when Ray Liotta is frantically running about trying to avoid the cops, finish dinner, and get the drugs sent off. The soundtrack, the camerawork, and the narration all change gears from the more static and sober effect of the rest of the film and become more jittery and frenzied in a way that draws you in and puts you in Liotta’s shoes. The whole movie is really first rate, but it didn’t blow me away. I didn’t come away from the movie thinking that it was a great injustice that it did not win an Oscar. I like Scorcese’s Age of Innocence more.
I can’t really say if Dances With Wolves was deserving or not. I don’t even remember if I’ve seen it, but I’m usually turned off by the white man goes and discovers the beauty of a different culture kinds of movies (e.g. Seven Years in Tibet, The Last Samurai).
I haven’t seen How Green Was My Valley but I love Citizen Kane. It is my favorite pre-1950 film. It hasn’t gotten crusty like so many other films from that era.
Comment by Tom — March 1, 2006 @ 11:33 am
Incidentally, The Maltese Falcon was also nominated in 1941. I like that movie better than Citizen Kane.
Comment by BTD Greg — March 1, 2006 @ 11:41 am
The Maltese Falcon is one of those movies that feels aged and crusty to me compared to Citizen Kane. I like it, but I don’t love it.
Comment by Tom — March 1, 2006 @ 12:14 pm
Huh. I sort of feel the opposite. Citizen Kane feels old and crusty, while The Maltese Falcon still feels moder, fresh and vibrant, especially in terms of quick pacing and snappy dialogue.
Comment by BTD Greg — March 1, 2006 @ 12:32 pm
There must be something seriously wrong with you, BTD Greg. Seriously.
Comment by Tom — March 1, 2006 @ 12:47 pm
Holy crap! It put a yellow winking smiley in the place of my winky emoticon. Oh, the wonders of the information age!
Comment by Tom — March 1, 2006 @ 12:50 pm
Citizen Kane is the greatest movie ever made. How Green Was My Valley is also a tremendous achievement. L.A. Confidential was robbed, but English Patient is good. I like GoodFellas well enough, but everybody needs to learn how to spell its directors’ name properly.
It’s Scorsese, with 2 s’s.
Comment by D. Fletcher — March 1, 2006 @ 12:58 pm
#5
Raiders is brilliant on every level.
Comment by Ronan — March 1, 2006 @ 1:29 pm
Ok, I suppose I need to get my eyes checked. For some reason my brain read this topic as “Oscar Transvestites” and I expected the competition to involve “Tootsie,” “Some Like It Hot,” “Just One of the Guys,” and “Rocky Horror Picture Show.”
Now there’s a Moviedrome!
Comment by Chad Too — March 1, 2006 @ 2:34 pm
Raiders may be the perfect movie. Sixth Sense probably isn’t perfect but American Beauty was heinous.
Comment by Matt Barr — March 1, 2006 @ 2:39 pm
I like Raiders of the Lost Ark, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it the perfect movie. It’s pure entertainment, beautifully wrought, compelling and fun, but not much more.
I reiterate, Citizen Kane *is* a perfect movie, perhaps the greatest ever made.
Comment by D. Fletcher — March 1, 2006 @ 2:50 pm
I really like Maltese Falcon, but agree that Citizen Kane is the better movie. Sorry, Greg.
Matt Barr, you’re right. American Beauty was dreadful. Wasn’t all that fond of English Patient, either. The only worthwhile thing about it was the subplot with the French nurse and Kip (Juliet Binoche and Naveen Andrews).
Comment by Allison — March 1, 2006 @ 3:39 pm
In what way was American Beauty heinous or dreadful?
I LOVE Citizen Kane.
Citizen Kane
Mercury; RKO Radio.
1941 (14th) ACTOR — Orson Welles {“Charles Foster Kane”}
ART DIRECTION (Black-and-White) — Art Direction: Perry Ferguson, Van Nest Polglase; Interior Decoration: Al Fields, Darrell Silvera
CINEMATOGRAPHY (Black-and-White) — Gregg Toland
DIRECTING — Orson Welles
FILM EDITING — Robert Wise
MUSIC (Music Score of a Dramatic Picture) — Bernard Herrmann
OUTSTANDING MOTION PICTURE — Mercury
SOUND RECORDING — RKO Radio Studio Sound Department, John Aalberg, Sound Director
* WRITING (Original Screenplay) — Herman J. Mankiewicz, Orson Welles
It won only for writing. Definitely snubbed.
Comment by Jennifer — March 1, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
Jennifer, in every way except the acting and cinematography.
Citizen Kane was definitely robbed.
Comment by Allison — March 1, 2006 @ 4:09 pm
American Beauty was a low comedy that’s been made or told five million times, but never elevated to the level of Epic Tragedy Encapsulating Our Times, for the very good reason that low comedies aren’t and don’t. It was Crescat Sententia-level pretentious.
Comment by Matt Barr — March 1, 2006 @ 4:31 pm
Raiders was great, one of my all-time faves. Spielberg’s brilliance with Lucas’… whatever he had that he subsequently lost (remember “Howard the Duck”? WTF?!).
Citizen Kane deserved more recognition.
Comment by David J — March 1, 2006 @ 4:42 pm
“Crescat Sententia-level pretentious”
LOL. This could go at the top of a useful blog-pretentiousness warning meter. In glowing read letters, of course.
Comment by Allison — March 1, 2006 @ 4:46 pm
D, Raiders, sounds like the “perfect movie” to this philistine.
Comment by Ronan — March 1, 2006 @ 5:56 pm
D. said, I reiterate, Citizen Kane *is* a perfect movie, perhaps the greatest ever made.
Agreed! It truly is the greatest film ever made for so many reasons and on so many levels. It’s the standard bearer against which all other movies should be judged. Of course, I’m a huge Raiders fan too and I also admit that I liked American Beauty. I like films that play off of the juxtaposition of opposite things, like beautifully filmed, but ugly situation; beautiful people, but ugly choices they make. Maybe that’s so simplistic, but I love that stuff anyway.
Comment by meems — March 1, 2006 @ 8:03 pm
1980: “Ordinary People” instead of “Raging Bull”. The “Goodfellas” snub wasn’t the first of Scorsese.
Comment by R.W. Rasband — March 1, 2006 @ 8:33 pm
I’ll disagree with you Supergenius (#3) on Forest Gump. It was loved and then within about a year and a half it became very uncool to like it. Now all you hear is about how bad it is and how it didn’t deserve the Oscar. Now I can accept that kind of talk with regard to Titanic. But I saw Gump again a few months back and I was surprised just how good it was. I never understood the backlash.
I’ll concede Saving Private Ryan wasn’t as good as it could have been. The second half in particular was lacking. I thought Hanks and Spielberg’s miniseries Band of Brothers was vastly superior.
Raiders of the Lost Ark is, in my mind, a classic. One of the best movies made. I saw it again at Christmas for the first time in a long time. I was amazed at how good it is. It is about as close to a flawless movie as I can think. It’s also a genre where most films are dreck. Having said that though Chariots of Fire was an amazing film too, but I’d have to put Raiders above it. Raiders is probably the best of a genre.
I’d second Miller’s Crossing above Goodfellas but probably not the Godfather I & II. But they’re all great.
Chocolat was a good film, but definitely not a great film. As I recall though it wasn’t a great year.
The Maltese Falcon, btw, is in my mind one of the classics of its genre. Close behind Raiders.
English Patient was vastly overrated in my mind. Good, but not great. I will stick up for American Beauty, although I liked his follow-up Road to Perdition better and was surprised how it was snubbed for nominations.
Comment by Clark Goble — March 1, 2006 @ 9:25 pm
I just watched a Citizen Kane documentary and had NO idea that William Randolph Hearst conducted a smear campaign against Welles which basically led to the snub and the downfall of Welles’ career. Sad. Gotta vote for Rosebud.
Comment by Ronan — March 10, 2006 @ 1:46 pm
Also, Welles was a self-indulgent egomaniac. But talented, for sure.
I gotta go Kane too, not only because it is a far more important filmmaking achievement than Goodfellas (a great movie but not landmark by any means), but also because I’m more fond of Kane.
Comment by Tom — March 10, 2006 @ 3:25 pm
From earlier in the conversation, Malick’s The Thin Red Line should have won over both Shakespeare and Ryan (my two cents). That said, Raiders is pretty close to the perfect movie. Kane is also close, but suffers from a cockatoo.
Comment by John C. — March 10, 2006 @ 5:54 pm
Oscar Snubs…
A look back at some historic Academy Award snubs…….
Trackback by Movie Star Blog — March 11, 2006 @ 9:53 am
Fargo is an inferior film to English Patient in almost every way. Giving the Oscar to a small, quirky, pseudo-insiders film instead of a brilliantly done epic (much harder to pull off BTW) would have been a mistake.
Goodfellas, on the other hand, is one of Scorcese’s best and should have won over the mediocre epic DWW.
Comment by Mathew — March 12, 2006 @ 10:51 am
HeHe, it’s ScorSeSe.
Comment by D. Fletcher — March 12, 2006 @ 6:55 pm
That seems like an aberrant spelling. The correct one, I mean. That, or everyone mispronounces it. As it reads it would be pronounced scorzezee, wouldn’t it? But since it’s always said scorsezee, it’s so very easy to put the c there if you know any Spanish or Portuguese. Or maybe we inappropriately try to impose Spanish and Portuguese rules on an Italian name. Whatever.
Comment by Tom — March 12, 2006 @ 11:42 pm
We’ve had this whole discussion and nobody has mentioned how Goodfellas is too long and falls apart the moment it begins to feel too long?
Comment by a random John — March 13, 2006 @ 10:08 am
Matthew (#35), have to disagree. I found English Patient one of the most overrated films of the last decade.
I agree (#38) Goodfellas, while an amazing film, is a tad overrated. (If only because it is rated so high) Interestingly Casino, while an inferior film (and perhaps redundant considering he already made Goodfellas), seemed to me to have better pacing.
Comment by Clark Goble — March 14, 2006 @ 5:20 pm
#1 Saving Pvt. Ryan was a typical Spielberg sappy mess. Shakespeare in Love was the better film, but loses its zip after the first or second viewing.
#9 Agree. Chocolat was a travesty. Not the absolute worst film ever nominated, but there is no explanation why in its year it got in. Just attrocious.
#12 The Maltese Falcon has the most miscast fem fatale in movie history. Mary Astor is hopelessly wrong for the part — but maybe not so hopelessly since she is brilliant solely because once you’ve seen the film four times, nobody else would do.
#35 Agree totally, Mathew.
Comment by Tom A. — March 15, 2006 @ 1:57 am
Actually, Tom, if it was spelled ScoCese, it would be pronounced
Scor-CHes-e.
Comment by D. Fletcher — March 15, 2006 @ 8:49 am
Wow. Something’s seriously wrong with Italians. Not as much as the French, though.
So the sin is (subconsciously) trying to apply Portuguese rules to Italian names.
Should it be pronounced scorzezee, scorzayzee, scorsezee, scorsayzee, scorsessee, or scorsayssee?
Comment by Tom — March 15, 2006 @ 9:49 am
“scorsayssee”
Seeing Scorsese’s name written like this reminds me of a little girl I used to teach whose name was pronounced “Saun-scene-your-ray.” It was spelled: Saunsceneyouray.
Comment by meems — March 15, 2006 @ 10:30 am
The fact that Forrest Gump beat The Shawshank Redemption in 1994 is a joke. The story of Shawshank is an uplifting, trying, and almost overwhelming experience that Tim Robbins had to go through to realize his dream. Don’t get me wrong, Tom Hanks was phenomenal as Forrest Gump in the “actor” category, which he won again by the way after winning the year before for Philadelphia. As for the movie as a whole, there is no comparison. And Morgan Freeman narrating throughout Shawshank, and on top of that, the performance that he put in, doesn’t hurt either.
Comment by Dave — September 18, 2006 @ 3:02 pm
Neither James Caan, Al Pacino, or Robert Duvall winning best supporting actor in ’72
Rocky beating out Taxi Driver, Network, and All the President’s Men in ’76
Robert Redford, Ordinary People, and Timothy Hutton beating out Scorcese, Raging Bull, and Joe Pesci respectively in ’80
R. Lee Ermy not even getting nominated for best supporting actor for Full Metal Jacket in ’87
Biggest of all time Kevin Costner and Dances with Wolves beating Scorcese and Goodfellas in ’90
Unforgiven beating Scent of a Woman in ’92
Forest Gump beating Pulp Fiction and Shawshank Redemption, Tom Hanks beating Morgan Freeman, Robert Zemekis beating Quentin Tarantino, that fucking old wrinkly jew bag Martin Landau beating Samuel L. Jackson, Tim Robbins not even getting nominated, all in ’94 what a fuckin’ fail
Casino only getting one nomination, Heat not getting any in ’95
Cuba Gooding beating Edward Norton in 96′
1997, unlucky year for LA Confidential and Good Will Hunting, both great, no way Titanic was gonna lose though, solid film
Shakespeare in Love Beating Saving Private Ryan, Robert Bengini beating Edward Norton, American History X only getting one nomination in ’98
2000 unlucky for Traffic, great movie, not quite as epic as Gladiator though, close race
Chicago beating Gangs of New York, Roman Polanski beating Scorcese, Adrian Brody beating Daniel Day-Lewis, Gangs of New York losing for best cinematography and original screenplay in ’02
David Carradine not getting nominated for best supporting actor in ’04
2005 scored pretty fair despite what everyone says, Crash was good, very close race
Blood Diamond not winning best picture, or even nominated. Leo’s career best performance, Departed winning was a makeup call for Scorcese in ’06
2007-08 well scored
Having 10 best picture nominees in a year without five good movies, The Blind Side, Avatar, A serious Man, An Education, and Up getting nominated for best picture in ’09
could-be travesties
if Cristoph Waltz doesn’t win best supporting actor, Quentin Tarantino doesn’t win best original screenplay and Director, if any of the above listed films win best picture, Avatar winning anything other than best visual effects.
Comment by John — February 17, 2010 @ 9:12 pm
also, Whoopie Goldberg beating Loraine Brocco in 1990 and Stanley Kubrick never winning oscars for directing or writing. Plus, Robert De Niro should’ve won best actor for the Deer Hunter, great film
Comment by John — February 17, 2010 @ 9:28 pm