The Arcade Fire’s "Rebellion (Lies)" won in meager voting last week, over Dallin I.’s objections. Huzzah!!
how’s about a touch of britpop this week?
The winners thus far:
Elvis Costello - Allison
Jet - Look What You’ve Done
Talking Heads - Psycho Killer
Guns N Roses - Paradise City
Jimi Hendrix - Purple Haze
Bob Dylan - Subterranean Homesick Blues
The New Pornographers - Letter From An Occupant
The Smiths - There is a Light that Never Goes Out
The Police - King of Pain
Violent Femmes - Kiss Off
Cat Stevens - Wild World
Aretha Franklin - River’s Invitation
Steppenwolf - Magic Carpet Ride
Dire Straits - Romeo and Juliet
Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit
The Verve - Bittersweet Symphony
The Doors - L.A. Woman
The Carpenters - On Top of the World
Boston - More Than a Feeling
Prince - When Doves Cry
Neil Young - Cinnamon Girl
The Chemical Brothers - Let Forever Be
U2 - I Will Follow
The Arcade Fire - Rebellion (Lies)
Steve, three straight posts?!? Seems as though you’ve got an itch. When ya going to give in and scratch?
Comment by Randy B. — November 17, 2005 @ 2:30 pm
nice try, Randy. It’s just because the other KBers are slackers. Hear that, folks? SLACKERS!!
Comment by Supergenius — November 17, 2005 @ 2:31 pm
Scatterbrain?! Radiohead finally gets a shot and we get Scatterbrain? There’s got to be at least 50 Radiohead songs stronger than that, and at least 8 on Hail to the Thief alone. I think Radiohead is about twenty times better than Coldplay overall, but I’m going to have to go with Coldplay out of this selection.
Comment by Eric Russell — November 17, 2005 @ 2:50 pm
Eric, I agree with you 100% - Scatterbrain is FAR from Radiohead’s best - but vs. Coldplay/Blur, what’s fair? Besides, Scatterbrain ain’t THAT bad.
Comment by Supergenius — November 17, 2005 @ 2:52 pm
As ever, I found listening to Radiohead about as enjoyable as listening to a Schoenberg ditty. (And since Schoenberg sort of signaled the end for classical music does Radiohead signal the end of rock?)
Ok, maybe nothing that dramatic…
In any case, Thunderdome remains as fun as ever. I went for Coldplay this week. (Sorry about missing the last vote… I thought the polls would be open longer for some reason)
Comment by Geoff J — November 17, 2005 @ 4:25 pm
What is it that you don’t like about Radiohead, Geoff? For me it’s Thom Yorke’s voice. So moany/whiny. I can tolerate it sometimes but not very often.
This Coldplay song is one of my all-time favorite songs, so I have to vote for it. This Blur song is good though.
Comment by Susan M — November 17, 2005 @ 4:44 pm
I agree that this is one of Coldplay’s better songs. Alternate tunings, used correctly, make for good songs.
Comment by Dallin I — November 17, 2005 @ 5:03 pm
Yes, Radiohead will be the end of Rock. Rock won’t stop being made, but Radiohead is the beginning of the end of Rock’s cultural relevance. It’s going the way of Jazz, I tell ya. And sooner rather than later.
Radiohead is also the brightest star in the Rock n’ Roll sky. And I love Thom’s voice. And Chris Martin’s singing drives me crazy. Funny how that works.
Comment by Tom — November 17, 2005 @ 5:09 pm
Tom, I read you loud and clear re: Radiohead. I do think that rock is shifting and its cultural relevance is being re-evaluated. Radiohead represents the future of rock IMHO in that respect. I love them for that. I mean, Amnesiac? Kid A? Genius albums, but rock albums? hmm.
Comment by Supergenius — November 17, 2005 @ 5:16 pm
A BritPop thunderdome? Now that’s an idea I can get behind. Unfortunately, I don’t classify Coldplay as BritPop, just Pop that happens to be British.
I agree that you have to pick a lesser Radiohead song to avoid a blood bath. I’m going for the Blur, as the best of these three, and besides, their album Think Tank was criminally under-rated.
Comment by NFlanders — November 18, 2005 @ 4:21 am
I guess I’m going to have to listen to Radiohead some more. Every time I’ve tried I’ve been disappointed and wondered what the hullabaloo was all about.
Comment by danithew — November 18, 2005 @ 9:53 am
I’m with Geoff and Danithew–I just don’t get all the hoopla over Radiohead. I really would like someone to explain it to me.
I can’t vote for Coldplay in good conscience.
Thus, my vote is for Blur.
Comment by Pris — November 18, 2005 @ 10:06 am
My answer to those who don’t get Radiohead: listen to more Radiohead! Levels and levels of sound, tremendous lyrics. wow.
Just not so much in Scatterbrain…
Comment by Supergenius — November 18, 2005 @ 10:07 am
I really would like someone to explain [Radiohead} to me.
How do you explain the sound of transcendence? What words are adequate to describe the force that drives the beating heart? How do you catch a cloud and pin it down? How do you hold a moon beam in your hand?
But seriously, if you don’t like it you don’t like it. Musical taste is one of those things that has no reason, or at least very little reason. To me, Radiohead sounds like musical perfection. The Bends is the cream of the 90’s guitar rock crop: big, loud guitar chords; dramatic, Pixies-like loud/soft dynamics; engaging tension/resolution dynamics; nice melodies; beautiful guitar interplay. Each song takes you to a different musical place and within several songs you experience a variety of textures, volumes, and emotions arranged in a way that is engaging and transporting.
OK Computer has the great inter- and intra-song dynamics of The Bends but less of the big guitar sound. The textures are more complex and there’s more atmospherics and layering using electronic effects which complement the songs, but they rarely take center stage. The perfect example of dynamic, dramatic songwriting is “Paranoid Android.” In fact, “Paranoid Android” is the pinnacle of of Rock songwriting period. When the aliens come and ask to see the finest examples of human achievement, “Paranoid Android” will be the first thing we present to them. (OK, that’s debatable, but darned if it ain’t a near-perfect song!).
Kid A and Amnesiac are all about texture and atmosphere; but not to the point where it becomes ambient music. The songs are well-shaped but there’s much less drama. The guitar is all but abandoned. It’s used mainly as just another effect. These records are less engaging to me than their great rock albums, but more beautiful. This is music that you let wash over you as you just take it in. There is some good abrasive stuff, too. It’s not all pretty.
I can see fans of Rock but not electronica not digging Kid A and Amnesiac. But The Bends and OK Computer are great Rock albums. On their latest Hail to the Thief they return to their rockin’ ways to some extent, but electronics are still very prominent. There are songs that wouldn’t feel too out of place on OK Computer and some that would fit in well on Kid A. I don’t think Hail to the Thief is much of a progression in their sound. It’s more of a synthesis.
Well, I’ve said enough. I trust that you have all been converted by the power of my words.
Comment by Tom — November 18, 2005 @ 1:36 pm
I would be if not for that awful singing. Which album has the least groaning/whining sound to the vocals? Someone at my last job put together some live stuff for me that I liked but I don’t know if it’s an album or a misc bunch of songs they got somewhere.
Comment by Susan M — November 18, 2005 @ 3:11 pm
The Bends. Definitely. He sings pretty straight forward on that one. And sometimes quite prettily. The Bends is the first Radiohead record I would recommend to any Rock fan. I’ve been listening to it for more than 10 years and I still enjoy myself every time I play it. It’s not exactly conventional, but it’s firmly rooted in the Rock tradition, much more so than anything they’ve done since, and I think it’s the most palatable to the uninitiated swine. Your hunger will grow from there.
Comment by Tom — November 18, 2005 @ 3:39 pm
My answer to those who don’t get Radiohead: listen to more Radiohead! Levels and levels of sound, tremendous lyrics. wow.
I’m willing to give it a try, Supergenius. Maybe you or someone you commission could put together some of their best stuff for us to listen to and write an accompanying post explaining why we non-Radioheaders are missing out. I’m willing to be convinced of that. I haven’t tried listening to more because I’ve never heard anything that remotely interested me from them. To the contrary I have found myself actively disliking most of the stuff I have heard… (Like Karma Police for instance)
It may be that they are a lyrics band. I am admittedly not at all a lyrics listener. (I think Susan has admitted as much as well.) If lyrics are the best part of Radiohead then I might never know it.
But if lyrics are the best part I think I might prefer just hearing spoken word albums from ol’ Thom than being forced to suffer through his man-whine over dissonant chord progressions like in “Scatterbrain”. This Scatterbrain is an especially painful song to listen to me. The same melody is whined over and over on top of painfully unresolving chord progression. It delivers none of what I want from rock — I don’t want to dance, I don’t want to bang my head, I don’t feel any sadness or joy, I just feel the kind of annoyance I get when there is a distracting cacophony going on around me.
Tom says Radiohead “transcends” rock. But I like rock. I don’t want to transcend it. Just like I like jazz and am not interested in the “transcendent” free jazz of Ornette Coleman and the like; or how I don’t enjoy listening to the “transcendent” classical of Schoenberg.
Part of me is suspicious of many fans of Radiohead because I wonder which ones are doing what they told by rock critics when they claim to like this music. To me, it seems the emperor has no clothes. But I know lots of people really do like them, so I would like to learn why and see if there is some stuff I would like. Since I believe KB participants probably aren’t the type to be browbeat into like the band by critics I’m hoping to be “shown the light”.
Comment by Geoff J — November 18, 2005 @ 3:44 pm
I was trying to be funny and put an html tag making “swine” subliminal. Like this: “swine{/subliminal}”. Hilarious, no? Well it didn’t work.
Comment by Tom — November 18, 2005 @ 3:45 pm
For the record, Geoff, I am also not a lyrics listener. I can’t understand a dang word anyone says most of the time. And I’m too literal-minded to respond very strongly to abstract poetry, spoken or sung. I do like the voice to be used as an instrument, and I like Thom’s instrument.
Part of me is suspicious of many fans of Radiohead because I wonder which ones are doing what they told by rock critics when they claim to like this music.
This is one of my favorite games–trying to diagnose why other people’s taste in music sucks. I haven’t completely diagnosed my wife yet, but I’m working on it. Somehow, somewhere she got the impression that Yanni is listenable and that Jewel isn’t extremely cheesy.
For the record again, I fell in love with The Bends in high school when the only other bands I really listened to were Pearl Jam, Nirvana, and Smashing Pumpkins and I didn’t read rock critics. The Bends wasn’t really much of a leap. It’s great rock. I’m not sure I would say that Radiohead transcends rock. I don’t use that word very often. My “sound of transcendence” comment was another attempt at hilarity. I’m knockin’ ‘em dead today!
Comment by Tom — November 18, 2005 @ 4:11 pm
Is The Bends the one with “Creep” on it? Because I think my husband might divorce me if he knew I had that album. He hates Radiohead with a passion because of that song. And that’s one factor in why I’ve never spent much time on them.
I am actually a big lyrics person, but I have to like the voice they’re delivered in. I really do like just about anything, music-wise, there’s very little I object to. I understand why people like Radiohead. I just can’t get past the voice.
Comment by Susan M — November 18, 2005 @ 4:34 pm
This is one of my favorite games–trying to diagnose why other people’s taste in music sucks.
Lol!
What? Who?! (looks around frantically)
But seriously, if there weren’t so many discerning music fans here I might not be so confused by this. Perhaps Steve is right that I just haven’t heard the right songs yet. I remember when “Creep” hit the radio around ‘93 and liking the hard “cha chunk” part with the guitars at the time. Still I sort if thought it was a bit of a novelty song with the lyrics.
Butthead: Huh huh… That guy just admitted he’s a weirdo…
Beavis: Yeah yeah! What a tool!
Both: huh huh, huh huh
Then in the late nineties Karma Police and others I can’t remember the names of were constantly played on San Diego radio and it came to the point that every time they came on I said to myself, with Thom in Creep, “what the hell am I doin’ here? I don’t belong here” and I’d change station immediately…
I must have missed the good song somewhere along the way.
Comment by Geoff J — November 18, 2005 @ 4:35 pm
I’m a Radiohead lover. And Susan, I think it’s understandable not to like Thom’s voice. Swap in Bono, and Radiohead would almost match U2 in popularity.
And yeah, the lyrics really do add to lots of the songs, but they aren’t always necessary. Starting with The Bends is definitely easiest. The twin highlight is “High and Dry” and “Fake Plastic Trees” back to back. And no — “Creep” is on Pablo Honey, so don’t worry, Susan.
Comment by Logan — November 18, 2005 @ 6:13 pm
“High and Dry” and “Fake Plastic Trees” are definitely nice tunes but if you’re looking for exciting rockers check out “The Bends,” “Just,” and especially “My Iron Lung.”
Logan, is Thom’s voice that much of a liability? Is the singing the principal reason Kid A, Amnesiac, and Hail to the Thief didn’t have very broad appeal? The music itself is, I think, at least as much as of a commercial liability as the voice. There’s not a lot that would grab the average listener: no catchy melodies or hooks, no guitar solos to speak of, no choruses. And it’s pretty abrasive at times (a virtue as far as I’m concerned). Not even Josh Groban could make this stuff popular.
I don’t know if The Bends and OK Computer could have been bigger with a different singer. They definitely have more of the elements that your average rock fan goes for than do their later albums. But those records did pretty good even with Thom singing, didn’t they? Maybe if they had continued to make semi-conventional rock their early success would’ve developed into megastardom, despite the voice (which, again, I don’t find offensive at all).
Comment by Tom — November 21, 2005 @ 2:37 am
Thom’s voice is one of the few reasons I kinda like Radiohead.
(For the record, these are the albums I have and am basing my decision from: the Bends, OK Computer, Amnesiac, Hail to the Thief.)
They do have some stuff I like–Amnesiac is probably my favorite of their albums; and I absolutely love “High and Dry”. I guess I just don’t get why people get so fanatical about it.
It just sounds so…cold…to me. It seems that a lot of it lacks earnestness (which is something I believe is required in good music). Cold and wank-y. Kinda like Jethro Tull.
Comment by Pris — November 21, 2005 @ 10:30 am
Hmm…earnestness. I like that word. And I totally see what you mean Pris. I always hear about how great Radiohead is live, and I’m sure if I ever saw them it’d change my perception of them. I know they have a live DVD out, but with the way my husband feels about them, watching that won’t happen any time soon.
Comment by Susan M — November 21, 2005 @ 10:44 am
Tom, I think his voice is definitely a liability to the group’s popularity. There are others, of course. But not being popular, just like you said about being abrasive, can be a virtue too. And it’s not that I find the singing offensive either. I can just see how someone would find it an obstacle in listening to Radiohead.
It’s also true that I’m thinking more about The Bends and OK Computer when I say that a different singer would make Radiohead more popular. But I guess I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say they “did pretty good even with Thom singing.” Certainly not compared to U2 (which was my comparison, even if I do admit to some exaggeration) — no Radiohead album is certified multiplatinum, where it took How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb about a month to get that certification. I think I’ve heard a Radiohead song on the radio about 5 times in my life, where U2 is ubiquitous. Commercially, Radiohead is about as successful as a reasonably popular indie band (i.e., a little more popular than Wilco, a little less than Franz Ferdinand or the White Stripes).
Comment by Logan — November 21, 2005 @ 10:58 am
Logan, Radiohead is more popular than Franz Ferdinand, by far. White Stripes is a little closer.
Comment by Supergenius — November 21, 2005 @ 11:09 am
Logan, I guess I mean that those records sold pretty well for an upstart band. They would have had much more commercial success had they continued in that mold making generally palatable, but still innovative/unique guitar-based Rock. I don’t know if they would be rivaling U2 now, but maybe Green Day.
“Creep,” “High and Dry,” and “Karma Police” got a ton of airplay mid-90’s. But there’s nothing from their last three albums that would be radio friendly no matter who was singing.
Susan, I only know of one live Radiohead DVD, called Radiohead: Meeting People is Easy, and it’s total crap. It’s not a concert, but bits of different performances and interview footage edited together as an excercise in jittery MTV “edginess.” Don’t waste your time.
Comment by Tom — November 21, 2005 @ 12:06 pm
Tom, I pretty much agree with everything you said in your last comment.
Steve, data to support either of our positions seems pretty hard to come by (a thought — I wonder if my law library has access to that sort of industry data. Well, I’m too lazy to put much effort into it either way. What I mean is that Google isn’t much help.) And it’s not obvious what the best measure would be, anyway. But I’m not so sure Franz isn’t more popular than Radiohead. I’m definitely talking popularity, NOT comparing how good they are. “Take Me Out” swept the world, appealing to teenage girls who buy CD’s everywhere in a way that Radiohead hasn’t even approached for over 10 years.
As for the Stripes, there’s no doubt about it. They’re definitely more commercially successful than Radiohead.
Comment by Logan — November 21, 2005 @ 5:11 pm
From the free section of billboard.com (search by band name, then click on artist chart history):
Radiohead was #34 with Creep in 1993 and #78 in 1996 with High and Dry on the Billboard Hot 100.
Franz Ferdinand was #66 with Take Me Out in 2004 and #76 in 2005 with Do You Want To on the same.
The White Stripes were #76 with Seven Nation Army in 2003 and #43 with Blue Orchid in 2005, “.
Like Logan I’m not sure what’s the best measure. I don’t know what biases these numbers have. And these only measure singles, not albums, not the band as a whole. But there’s something to look at. There are other charts (also for singles) listed at that website too.
I also love Radiohead and I agree that The Bends is a good album to start with.
Comment by Heather P. — November 22, 2005 @ 3:22 pm
When I think of a band’s popularity, my first thought is how big of a venue they play, not record sales. Probably cuz I’m wacko. But I’m fairly certain Radiohead would outsell either band for a concert.
Comment by Susan M — November 22, 2005 @ 4:50 pm
I agree with Susan’s measure of popularity for bands.
Record sales are unjustly influenced by radio play, which makes me think of lemmings and cliffs.
Does that make me wacko too?
Comment by Jennifer — November 23, 2005 @ 3:03 pm
I agree with Susan and Jennifer, kind of. The number of people that will go to see a band live is definitely a good measure of the size and devotion of a band’s fan base. And by that measure, Radiohead definitely has Franz Ferdinand beat.
But at this moment it really feels to me like FF is more popular. They’re certainly more in the spotlight. They opened the Grammys last year (in that abominable mish-mash, remember?). They’re making TV appearances. In my very limited MTV watching lately I’ve seen FF a few times but never Radiohead.
I don’t think FF will last very long. They certainly won’t engender the kind of devoted following that Radiohead has. But at the moment I’d have to say they’re more popular in the sense that they’re more prominent on the scene right now.
Comment by Tom — November 23, 2005 @ 6:30 pm